Catholics when did Jesus say?
That he only established the church only through Peter?
He didn’t build the church on Peter, he built the church on himself:
Matt. 16:18, "And I also say to you that you are Peter (petros), and upon this rock (petra) I will build My church; and the gates of Hades shall not overpower it."
Peter said himself that the rock is Jesus:
Pet. 2:8, speaking of Jesus says that he is "A stone of stumbling and a rock (petra) of offense"; for they stumble because they are disobedient to the word, and to this doom they were also appointed."
Moses says God is the rock:
Deuteronomy 32:4, He is the Rock, His work is perfect;For all His ways are justice,A God of truth and without injustice; Righteous and upright is He.
How can the pope be infallible if Peter wasn’t infallible and had to be corrected by Paul?
Galatians 2:11-13, Now when Peter[a] had come to Antioch, I withstood him to his face, because he was to be blamed; for before certain men came from James, he would eat with the Gentiles; but when they came, he withdrew and separated himself, fearing those who were of the circumcision. And the rest of the Jews also played the hypocrite with him, so that even Barnabas was carried away with their hypocrisy.
Dude, like I would really trust a site that had a link to the "joys of satan".
10 Comments on “Catholics when did Jesus say?”
He didn’t.
It is clear from reading the Book of Acts that none of the other disciples considered Peter to be their leader.
Peter means pebble not rock. The Lord is referred to as "The Rock" many times in the Bible.
he never said that he never said anything because he never existed.
http://www.exposingchristianity.com
Jesus used the word Hades? wow
It was Jesus Christ who is referred to as the ‘rock mass’…not Peter. There are cross-reference scriptures that prove this explaining its meaning in the original Greek.
Of whom was Jesus speaking when he said: “On this rock-mass I will build my congregation,” or “my church”? Notice that Jesus does not say “Peter’s church,” or “Paul’s church,” but “my church.” Jesus is here speaking about his footstep followers. — Matt. 16:18; 1 Cor. 12:12-28; Eph. 1:22, 23; Rev. 14:1, 3.
Jesus Christ is also identified in the Scriptures as a rock. In fact, Jesus identifies himself as the rock or cornerstone that the builders rejected. (Matt. 21:42) In his writings the apostle Peter testifies to this fact, saying: “Coming to him as to a living stone, rejected, it is true, by men, but chosen, precious, with God, you yourselves also as living stones are being built up a spiritual house for the purpose of a holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ. For it is contained in Scripture: ‘Look! I am laying in Zion a stone, chosen, a foundation cornerstone, precious; and no one exercising faith in it will by any means come to disappointment.’ It is to you, therefore, that he is precious, because you are believers; but to those not believing, ‘the identical stone that the builders rejected has become the head of the corner,’ and ‘a stone of stumbling and a rock-mass of offense.’” (1 Pet. 2:4-8) Thus stones or rocks are used in an illustrative sense, representing individual faithful members who become a part of the Christian congregation built on the foundation cornerstone Jesus Christ.
I can only state what seems obvious to me, a Bible lover, Catholic, convert, and intellectual-kinda-dude, namely that the best source for the answer has to be former anti-Catholics and Protestant ministers who have since become Catholic. And there is a website for such people
The Coming Home Network
http://www.chnetwork.org/journals/authority/authority_8.htm
There are really too many questions for the space allowed here to answer but I appreciate the opportunity to answer. I will be brief.
I know you are not a trained exegete as I can glean that from your conclusions and I can tell by your mistranslation that you are not trained in biblical languages such as the difficulties of translating from the Aramaic into the Koine Greek. If you had that knowledge you would know that Jesus was speaking of St. Peter in Matthew 16:18. However you were correct in saying that the Church was not established upon St. Peter alone.
The Bible tells us that Jesus is the cornerstone of the foundation of the Church.
1 Peter 2:6-86-Wherefore also it is contained in the scripture, Behold, I lay in Sion a chief corner stone, elect, precious: and he that believeth on him shall not be confounded.
7Unto you therefore which believe he is precious: but unto them which be disobedient, the stone which the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the corner,
8And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed.
The Bible further describes using construction vernacular that the the disciples are the 12 foundation stones with St. Peter being the leader of the disciples as appointed by Jesus and the one whom the keys were given:
Ephesians 2:19-22
" 19 So then you are no longer strangers and aliens, but you are fellow citizens with the saints, and are of God’s household, 20 having been built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus Himself being the corner stone, 21 in whom the whole building, being fitted together, is growing into a holy temple in the Lord, 22 in whom you also are being built together into a dwelling of God in the Spirit."
and
Revelation 21:10-14
" 10 And he carried me away in the Spirit to a great and high mountain, and showed me the holy city, Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, 11 having the glory of God. Her brilliance was like a very costly stone, as a stone of crystal-clear jasper. 12 It had a great and high wall, with twelve gates, and at the gates twelve angels; and names were written on them, which are the names of the twelve tribes of the sons of Israel. 13 There were three gates on the east and three gates on the north and three gates on the south and three gates on the west. 14 And the wall of the city had twelve foundation stones, and on them were the twelve names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb."
As for your claim that in Galatians St. Peter is proved to not be infallible, you err because you are using for yourself a different definition for infallibility than that which is defined by the Church. What we see in the verse you provided is the Church working in concert through the Holy Spirit to come to the truth. We do not find a flaw in the doctrine of infallibility but a defining of the term in actual usage. Infallibility does not mean that the Pope is always right but that he may make infallible statements on matters of faith and morals when in accordance with the teaching of the Church but it does not say that everything that he says is infallible. However the Church never errs and is now and will always be just as Jesus promised ‘the pillar and foundation of the truth". God bless!
In Christ
Fr. Joseph
http://www.catholic.com/library/Origins_of_Peter_as_Pope.asp
That explains about the whole Petra/petros thing, Jesus spoke Aramaic, not Greek
Catholics do not claim that Jesus "only established the church only through Peter."
Catholics claim that Jesus established the Church through the Holy Spirit and placed Peter as its shepherd, our most senior pastor.
John 21:15-17 states:
When they had finished breakfast, Jesus said to Simon Peter, "Simon, son of John, do you love me more than these?" He said to him, "Yes, Lord, you know that I love you." He said to him, "Feed my lambs."
He then said to him a second time, "Simon, son of John, do you love me?" He said to him, "Yes, Lord, you know that I love you." He said to him, "Tend my sheep."
He said to him the third time, "Simon, son of John, do you love me?" Peter was distressed that he had said to him a third time, "Do you love me?" and he said to him, "Lord, you know everything; you know that I love you." (Jesus) said to him, "Feed my sheep.
Matthew 16:17-19 states:
Jesus said to him in reply, "Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah. For flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but my heavenly Father. And so I say to you, you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of the netherworld shall not prevail against it. I will give you the keys to the kingdom of heaven. Whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven; and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven."
The Catholic Church believes the Lord made Simon alone, whom he named Peter, the "rock" of his Church. He gave him the keys of his Church and instituted him shepherd of the whole flock.
The Pope is the senior pastor of 1.1 billion Catholic Christians, the direct successor of Simon Peter.
The Pope’s main roles include teaching, sanctifying, and governing.
For more information, see the Catechism of the Catholic Church, section 880-882: http://www.usccb.org/catechism/text/pt1sect2chpt3art9p4.shtml#880
With love in Christ.
Peter is the Rock on which the Church is Built
Mark 3:16; John 1:42 – Jesus renames Simon "Kepha" in Aramaic which literally means "rock." This was an extraordinary thing for Jesus to do, because "rock" was not even a name in Jesus’ time. Jesus did this, not to give Simon a strange name, but to identify his new status among the apostles. When God changes a person’s name, He changes their status.
Gen. 17:5; 32:28; 2 Kings 23:34; Acts 9:4; 13:9 – for example, in these verses, we see that God changes the following people’s names and, as a result, they become special agents of God: Abram to Abraham; Jacob to Israel, Eliakim to Jehoiakim, Saul to Paul.
2 Sam. 22:2-3, 32, 47; 23:3; Psalm 18:2,31,46; 19:4; 28:1; 42:9; 62:2,6,7; 89:26; 94:22; 144:1-2 – in these verses, God is also called "rock." Hence, from these verses, non-Catholics often argue that God, and not Peter, is the rock that Jesus is referring to in Matt. 16:18. This argument not only ignores the plain meaning of the applicable texts, but also assumes words used in Scripture can only have one meaning. This, of course, is not true. For example:
1 Cor. 3:11 – Jesus is called the only foundation of the Church, and yet in Eph. 2:20, the apostles are called the foundation of the Church. Similarly, in 1 Peter 2:25, Jesus is called the Shepherd of the flock, but in Acts 20:28, the apostles are called the shepherds of the flock. These verses show that there are multiple metaphors for the Church, and that words used by the inspired writers of Scripture can have various meanings. Catholics agree that God is the rock of the Church, but this does not mean He cannot confer this distinction upon Peter as well, to facilitate the unity He desires for the Church.
Matt. 16:18 – Jesus said in Aramaic, you are "Kepha" and on this "Kepha" I will build my Church. In Aramaic, "kepha" means a massive stone, and "evna" means little pebble. Some non-Catholics argue that, because the Greek word for rock is "petra", that "Petros" actually means "a small rock", and therefore Jesus was attempting to diminish Peter right after blessing him by calling him a small rock. Not only is this nonsensical in the context of Jesus’ blessing of Peter, Jesus was speaking Aramaic and used "Kepha," not "evna." Using Petros to translate Kepha was done simply to reflect the masculine noun of Peter.
Moreover, if the translator wanted to identify Peter as the "small rock," he would have used "lithos" which means a little pebble in Greek. Also, Petros and petra were synonyms at the time the Gospel was written, so any attempt to distinguish the two words is inconsequential. Thus, Jesus called Peter the massive rock, not the little pebble, on which He would build the Church. (You don’t even need Matt. 16:18 to prove Peter is the rock because Jesus renamed Simon “rock” in Mark 3:16 and John 1:42!).
Matt. 16:17 – to further demonstrate that Jesus was speaking Aramaic, Jesus says Simon "Bar-Jona." The use of "Bar-Jona" proves that Jesus was speaking Aramaic. In Aramaic, "Bar" means son, and "Jonah" means John or dove (Holy Spirit). See Matt. 27:46 and Mark 15:34 which give another example of Jesus speaking Aramaic as He utters in rabbinical fashion the first verse of Psalm 22 declaring that He is the Christ, the Messiah. This shows that Jesus was indeed speaking Aramaic, as the Jewish people did at that time.
Matt. 16:18 – also, in quoting "on this rock," the Scriptures use the Greek construction "tautee tee" which means on "this" rock; on "this same" rock; or on "this very" rock. "Tautee tee" is a demonstrative construction in Greek, pointing to Peter, the subject of the sentence (and not his confession of faith as some non-Catholics argue) as the very rock on which Jesus builds His Church. The demonstrative (“tautee”) generally refers to its closest antecedent (“Petros”). Also, there is no place in Scripture where “faith” is equated with “rock.”
Matt. 16:18-19 – in addition, to argue that Jesus first blesses Peter for having received divine revelation from the Father, then diminishes him by calling him a small pebble, and then builds him up again by giving him the keys to the kingdom of heaven is entirely illogical, and a gross manipulation of the text to avoid the truth of Peter’s leadership in the Church. This is a three-fold blessing of Peter – you are blessed, you are the rock on which I will build my Church, and you will receive the keys to the kingdom of heaven (not you are blessed for receiving Revelation, but you are still an insignificant little pebble, and yet I am going to give you the keys to the kingdom).
Matt. 16:18-19 – to further rebut the Protestant argument that Jesus was speaking about Peter’s confession of faith (not Peter himself) based on the revelation he received, the verses are clear that Jesus, after acknowledging Peter’s receipt of divine revelation, turns the whole discourse to the person of Peter: Blessed are “you” Simon, for flesh and blood h